To wait? Sometimes, please March 20, 2007
Posted by charmingbutsingle in Dating, Friends.trackback
I have a friend who has been faced with an interesting dilemma. She has gone out on dates with a guy who actually calls her back – right back, actually. Two hours after a lunch date, for example.
This should be great, right? An upfront, straightforward guy. Perfect!
Problem is that sometimes you don’t want to immediately speak with the guy you just went out with. You want to have time to think over the date (and to consult your Dating Committee/Task Force about the conversation, the body language, the outfit choice) and be giddy and then compose yourself so that you don’t show this giddiness and/or ambivalence. We need a chance to pause and decide our next steps. And this is why the Two Day Rule, the one which keeps most men from calling for at least two days, is very, very useful and necessary sometimes in today’s dating world.
I noted that we should remember this exact situation when cursing some guy not calling after a date because of the Two Day Rule in the future.
“We should write this down somewhere,” I pointed out via e-mail.
“Yes, very useful for the future. And we are certain to forget,” she replied.
“I’ll embroider a sampler for you. ‘I Heart The Two Day Rule’.”
I hate the two day rule. Totally arbitrary.
You have to use the “Two Day Rule” but for different reasons. For a guy it’s because you don’t want to come across to anxious; for a girl it’s for the reasons Charming stated. Women need to let it saturate before she knows how to handle her next move. It is a game, but that’s just the way it works unfortunately.
Silly, really, and of course wholly arbitrary. Yes, 2 hours afterwards is a bit too soon perhaps. Sounds like he’s smitten, or simply socially clueless & a bit awkward. She might want to clue him in if she thinks she might like him. But this m’dear: “You want to have time to think over the date (and to consult your Dating Committee/Task Force about the conversation, the body language, the outfit choice)…” may be part of the general problem. That’s more of the mindset of a teen than a mid 20 or 30 something adult. I don’t care what they might say on ‘Sex in the City’, anyone who’s still consulting GF’s OR BF’s on that level of intimacy when beyond age 25 say, And so soon afterwards, it’s a mark of immaturity. As an adult you really don’t need a ‘consult’ to figure these things out. You might just ask the guy. Why? He might even tell you. But 2 days or a week as a ‘golden standard’ rule of a ‘decent interval’ for communications? Most guys don’t have the attention span for this. They’ll hardly recall distant family members a week after eating with them at Thanksgiving.
So we finally find the one guy out of perhaps 1000 who DOES pay attention and calls (probably a slow acting brain disease, right?), and we’re ready to dismiss him as simply ‘too weird’. I’ll make a fearless prediction here. The ‘dating committee’ will decide that he’s simply too strange to date. And that perhaps he’ll be married inside of a year to someone who ignores this trait. Cheers & Good Luck, ‘VJ’
Ah so true. One of my friends has recently acquired a boyfriend who, after ione date was calling her his girlfriend and is having a tendency of just stopping by on his way past..quite a feat when we live ina cul de sac. There should be rules about that too.
Rules have no place in dating. That said, I wait a day or two to call. Not because of a rule, but because I don’t want to seem too anxious. Strange how that works out, isn’t it?
A few hours later though? Unless you’ve been on several dates, that’s a bit much. Last date I went on was with a girl I worked with. Made it easier though, because we went out on Friday, and were both at work on Monday. Why call when I’ll see you two days later?
Where I meesed up, I think, is inviting her to my place for date two, cooking a mediocre dinner, and not accepting several advances for what could have been sex.
Sometimes I hate being an alright guy.
As someone who played by *the rules* for long enough and then threw them out the door then met the man of her dreams/now husband I have to say that I would hate for you to miss out on a good guy just because he called too soon.
I admit to not buying into the “rules” baloney, but two hours? What did he forget to say?
VJ — I don’t know how the rest of the Dating Committees of the world operate, but I don’t tell my friends what to do. I give them advice if they ask, but I never say, “Dump him!” So, let’s clear that up right away.
Second, as far as a “teenage midset” goes, you can call it what you want, but there’s something to be said to discussing things with close friends and getting their read on things before you make up your own mind based on your experience. Men can complain that woman do this, but trust me, we only do it with guys who are actual contenders. After a bad date, I tell my girlfriends the story because we keep up with each others’ lives, but we quickly move on. So men, you WANT us to talk about you with our girlfriends. It means we LIKE and/or ARE INTRIGUED BY you.
And trust me, I know many a woman (myself included) who has had friends throw up roadblocks to dating a guy who was clearly not right for her. And I’ve never met a woman (myself included) who had a major spark and growing feelings for a guy who dumped him because her friends said so.
First off - VJ, what is it that you think people are supposed to talk about? Isn’t talking about stuff like this kind of what the whole “living” thing is all about? Men, women, dogs, cats - all of ‘em like to communicate what’s going on in their lives (well, maybe not cats). And I promise you that the same kind of conversations happen in retirement communities - does that mean everyone has a “teenage mindset?” If so, I say there’s nothing wrong with being young at heart.
Second: to me, the key to the two-day rule isn’t that it makes you not “seem” too anxious; rather, for me it’s more about not BEING too anxious. I used to be that guy who couldn’t wait to slap the “girlfriend” label on somebody that I’d gone on a few good dates with, but I didn’t start to have good relationships until I started taking things more slowly and letting a thing “breathe,” as it were.
I guess my point is that the two-day rule is NOT all that arbitrary, and it’s not about playing games: it’s about taking some time to do your own things, to renew, to anticipate the next meeting. It’s a way of letting a relationship get some legs underneath it, rather than just running on the initial buzz of the first-couple date butterflies. The two-day rule is only a game when you’re sitting around waiting to call because you “couldn’t” call before that; it’s a positive thing otherwise.
I don’t know if it should be a “rule”, but things have a way of working out in that fashion. I personally find a short post-date email/text that night a nice gesture. “Had a great time! Hope to do it again soon.” Then a call a couple of days after. Hey, whatever works for you!
As for girl committee, totally agree with Charming. I certainly have continued to date (hindsight) idiots after lukewarm opinions from the gang, but it’s a great to get different perspectives and just bond with your gal pals. Yes boys, you WANT us to talk about you.
Funny this came up. Someone commented in my blog about this just the other day. It also makes me think of the new Cingular commercial with the guy who calls his date, ignoring the “rule.”
A two-day wait should be a suggestion not a rule. Every situation is different though I would agree two hours is a bit too anxious. I’d think that at least allowing both parties to sleep on it would be fair. But then the question is, what’s too long to wait? At what point do you write the other person off?
What the heck is wrong with women?
We call, we are wrong. We waited then call, we are wrong. We don’t call, we are still wrong.
The only thing left to do is not care about what women think. Do as we please.
Since I live in NY, almost everyone uses public transit to get home. So, call me paranoid but, I usually ask them to call me when they get home so I know that the reason they don’t call later is not because they are lying in a ditch somewhere. These are usually 2 min conversations but they technically break the 2 day rule.
I have never been one of those people that go by rules when it came to relationships but I do relay information to my Circle not much to get told what to do but more for cooing/venting value. Like Charming I’ve never met a woman who has dumped a guy solely on the advice of their friends. Heck if I had a nickel for every guy my friends hated but I was infatuated with… I could afford to buy a soda (if I didn’t give it up for Lent that is)…
I’m with You can call me, ‘Sir.’
A person doesn’t necessarily need to wait 2 days, but 2 hours is a bit odd. If it was just to say he had a good time, then he should have sent an email or text.
I feel the story may need to be expanded with the dialogue of the phone call..
Two days is a good guideline (not necessarily a “rule”). Calling too soon kind of feels like when someone is standing all up in your personal space. Calling so soon after can also make it seem like you don’t have anything else going on in your life—which at best makes the other person feel pressure to fill a void in the Too-Sooner’s life, and at worst comes across as slightly pathetic.
Waiting a couple of days gives both people a little breathing room, to mull the date over, and hopefully to anticipate hearing from/seeing one another again. Anticipation is important when you’re just getting to know someone, and you can’t anticipate someone that’s practically underfoot.
As to hashing over dates with friends: Completely normal. Most people aren’t looking for directives from their friends (and beware of those who are). The hashing is sometimes commiseration, sometimes cheerleading, and most often getting an outside (tho’ biased) point of view. We all have things we’re too judgmental about, or get too “blinded by the cute” to note, and a good friend knows how to call us out some of our bullshit.
Two hours?
Yeah, way too fast.. too eager.. It’s good that he’s not afraid to show his interest but come.. on..
If they’re just dating its okay, and sometimes preferred, to wait at least a day after seeing each other before calling.
First off, I think the rule is stupid. It’s love, not soccer, right?
That said, if the people involved both know the rules and believe in them and try to play by them, shouldn’t it be a huge compliment that this guy is willing to break the rules to show your friend just how much he likes her?
I also have a question: What was the phone call about? Did he want to have a full-on conversation or was it just a “Hey, I really had a nice time today and I wanted you to know” thing? Some people like to make follow-up calls to be polite.
I so love when the guys call me right back like that. It shows he’s interested and I love that. I am tired of wondering if the guy really cares.
I had a date where the guy called me the following evening to say he had a good time (it had been a “group” first date with mutual friends) and wondered if I would like to go out sometime to get to know each other better. We had also discussed business the night before (I am doing some work for him, I’m an artist) and so he kind of used that as an extra excuse to call so soon. I did, in fact, like that he called. It made me feel appreciated and like he was interested, because I had no idea if he liked me or not and I had liked him. I also liked that he called after the second date, about half an hour later, to be sure I made it home okay. I’m tired of being ignored and it is nice to be paid attention to. Needless to say, there was a third date and a fourth this weekend, snowboarding. I also think it may depend on the situation and HOW the guy does it. (the call)
This reminds me of the story about the hare and the turtle.
But i’m dorky like that.
The two day rule is a rule of thumb…a guideline…for guys in trying to navigate this Sex and the City (for lack of a better term) world in which women find themselves. Even though the rule is older than the show (see Swingers), the extremely complex and confusing world demands that us simple minded men have a guideline that is easily understood and followed by all involved. Sure, if you want to call earlier, you may, but you do run the risk of coming off too creepy. Two hours can be OK, but you do run an ever greater risk. If you go 3 days, we at least understand that women know the 2 day rule, so any amount of time over 2 days, we get lumped in the “he’ll never call me back” pile. There has to be some sort of guideline/rule/easy to understand suggestion for us in this area. It’s the KISS analogy…Keep It Simple Stupid.
As far as the immature mindset, I can say this much, though I have only been privy to a few of these Female Committee meetings, I have learned they do hold value. Any major decision made by any major decision maker almost always is done with counsel with varying viewpoints and information. Companies are not bought and sold on the mere whims of one individual. There’s an army of lawyers, accountants, marketing people, etc. feeding information to the board/CEO in order to make the best decision possible. If you want a good time, have a Female Committee adopt a single guy and have the disect the date with information provided by the single guy. It blew my mind!!!
Two hours is a little too fast for communication. I hate the games as much as anyone, but sometimes, you can hurt yourself by being too agressive. Give it time.. if it sounds good in two hours, it could sound desparate in 4, and great again in 6.
“There has to be some sort of guideline/rule/easy to understand suggestion for us in this area. It’s the KISS analogy…Keep It Simple Stupid.”
I think the two day rule keeps everything simple. Not just for guys. Sometimes, I do want to call back, but I need a day for the excitement of the date (or the disappointment) to wear off to know exactly where I stand with the whole date thing in general.
In my opinion though, 2 hours after the date, the only phone call I should be receiving are ones from either my best friend or my mother.
As far as the committee, who knows? Certainly not I, since I own a penis and my committee’s general concerns are “Was she hot?” “How big were her boobs?” and “Did you hit it?” So crass.
I do discuss things with female friends at times, but really they’re as clueless about women as I am, it would appear. Furthering my idea that women think they know what they want, but in the end they don’t know any more than we do.
The real questions I have are about the pre-date time. Seriously, the hardest step is that initial asking out. The worst part is being rejected, and to ease that you look for signs of interest. I have been wrong on occassions that seemed like a sure bet. And would it kill people to wear a wedding ring?
“You want to have time to think over the date (and to consult your Dating Committee/Task Force about the conversation, the body language, the outfit choice) and be giddy and then compose yourself so that you don’t show this giddiness and/or ambivalence”
I knew you women did this, I just could never prove it. Lol.
I haven’t read any of the comments so I’m going to guess some intelligent soul has already stated what I’m about to. Nonetheless…
This is why some women will never get anywhere with guys. Ya’ll are always nitpicking over the most absurd little things. You want the call. You don’t want the call. Oh wait, he called too soon, must not be the guy for me. That asshole waited 3 days to call, fuck him. Oh my god he called me on the way home from the date, what a loser. Before that I thought we had a connection, but he’s obviously a psycho. Jesus Christ he called me at work! What was he thinking?! He called me twice yesterday! Give me some space!
Oh, and you say “remember the 2 day rule” but you won’t. You’re gonna complain when he waits 3 days or jumps the gun and only waits 1. It’s all the same, just let it be. Let it flow.
Anyway, I love it. Girl’s (because females like this are not women) dating blogs are the best entertainment after a long day at the office.
Honestly, I think it’s funny people come here and rip apart everything about an opinion. Seems to me, you must be angry about something.
James… What are you angry about? Just have a seat on the couch. Lay down, if you prefer. Just let me get ready to say “How did that make you feel?” in the most serious way possible.
Yes, lots of entertainment value for the money. Let me clean up some slight issues perhaps.
1.) I’m in agreement with several commentators that we probably need more context & information here about the caller. What were the phone call(s) about, and what might have been their context?
2.) Yes, I was specifically critiquing the infamous ‘Dating Committees’, which again I’ll freely describe as ‘juvenile’. I do know they can and do occur almost everywhere at all ages. I’ll also freely admit that they can be useful to many on occasion too. Getting advice from friends on a more individual basis can be useful too in avoiding some of the unfortunate ‘pack mentality’ and warped psychology seen when ANY committee gets together.
3.) Given that I’ll still admit some marginal utility for the prospect for some committees, this though is clearly an argument for Zero Population growth:
“Any major decision made by any major decision maker almost always is done with counsel with varying viewpoints and information. Companies are not bought and sold on the mere whims of one individual. There’s an army of lawyers, accountants, marketing people, etc. feeding information to the board/CEO in order to make the best decision possible.”
If any guy OR gal were subject to such a level of scrutiny, we’d all be alone, lonely & celibate. That was my main point. Cheers & Good Luck! ‘VJ’
Wailin…I’m not angry about anything. I’m not sure where that came from. I was merely stating truths that 99% of males (and intelligent females) will agree with. I’ll bet you even agree with the post.
I have a wonderful, sane, girlfriend. We read “dating” blogs because they’re ridiculously entertaining…and ridiculously ridiculous for that matter.
Ok all, hate to break it to you, but I wasn’t actually on the phone call. I didn’t date the guy. So the date and the call aren’t really my stories to tell — the point of this was more to show how the unspoken rules of dating sometimes come in handy.
It is all well and good to say, “I hate playing games!” And maybe you do. But maybe you’re also sitting there staring at the caller ID when your date calls the first day after your date and thinking, “He wasn’t supposed to call until tomorrow! I’m not ready!” before you pick up the phone or send the call to voicemail.
I am fairly certain I’m not the only person to feel like this. And, I dated The Nurse for, what, six weeks to two months? And he called the day after our first date. So, I’m not some horrible game-playing shrew. I’m just honest enough to admit that sometimes I appreciate the Unspoken Dating Rules.
James — When you leave your URL as google, you get marked as a spam comment. And then I have to moderate you. Not so cool.
Also, I think Wallin was just being protective — he reads my blog every day. It is sweet.
I think if you re-read my post, you’ll see that I never advocated that my friend not date this guy — I merely pointed out that she was unprepared for the call and would have liked if he would have given her a little time/space after their date.
This was honestly meant to be a little nothing post. Joking between two friends. I’m kind of amused at the amount of debate in the comments.
Just to be clear, I’m not embroidering “I Heart The Two Day Rule” on a pillow. A craft blog this is not.
Well, I don’t read every day…
As far as the sweet… don’t let that get out. I have an image to maintain, after all.
And James, no I don’t necessarily agree that this will get women nowhere. It does seem silly to have strategy meetings, but it’s purely unconcious, mostly. Just think when you met your GF. I’m sure you talked to friends about her. Not necessarily to decide if she was worth it or not, but as humans we share experiences with others. Mostly, that’s what happens. But yeah, calling 2 hours later seems a bit much, unless it is just a ‘Seeing if you made it ome okay’ or ‘I had fun, and just wanted you to know.’
Now, about this girlfriend… how does she make you feel?
*chews pencil, eagerly waiting to pretend to be taking notes but in actuality will be doodling*
Charming…my bad, I don’t have a Web site or blog (I know, I know). I wasn’t sure if the post would go through if I left it blank so I just put google. But the e-mail address is legit.
(Even though it’s not viewable to the public.) Maybe you could put “url: leave blank if you don’t have one” or something. 
Sorry you had to login and click not spam. There’s just simply no way I could have known.
Wailin…miscommunication? My post wasn’t about the fact that women talk. That’s normal, understood, and I have no qualms about it. I was simply referring to complaining when a guy calls too soon or too late or whatever the case may be. It seems to never be good enough. One guy can call after a day and it’s fine, but another guy has to wait 3 days to call or he’s a social misfit. It’s never the same and getting upset/annoyed because a guy is or is not calling too soon or too late is a little bit childish. A girl who can’t handle a guy calling after one day (or has some silly idea that’s it’s “breaking the rules”) isn’t ready for a guy at all. My point is that people should just relax a little and not read too much into little things like phone calls. (After all this posting it seems I should take my own advice, huh?)
Yeah, it kind of does. How does that make you feel?
*removes glasses (which have normal glass and are just for this) and raises an eyebrow to emphasize the drama of the moment while staring*
I was just rambling more than anything. I tend to do that.. a lot.
Unfortunately there’s girls who’l feel claustrophobic if a guy calls sooner than 2 days after the date, and others who feel ignored if the guy waits that long. Perhaps there should be a post-date survey that tells the guy how long he should wait to call back if he’s interested? =P
it shouldn’t matter, why all the rules. the heart should decide.
http://trinimobile.wordpress.com/
i, too, heart the two day rule. i need that much time to discuss, analyze and predict the guy’s behavior with my friends. we must rehash and rehash and rehash.
duh.
this guy needs to be clued in.
i don’t agree w/VJ at all. if i’m not talking about a guy, that means he’s forgettable. not good.
i don’t think guys should freak out about the fact that we will talk about dates w/our girlfriends. while they cannot sway our opinions 100%, they can play a role to the extent that they can get us to give a guy a 2nd chance. my girlfriends have never been directly responsible for any breakups on my part, but i’m not saying they don’t play a role. they do have influence.
clark hit the nail on the head. he (she?) summed it up perfectly. chigirl also makes good points — if you are that anxious, send an email.
azneagle– this is why the two-day rule is in place. wait two days and you can’t go wrong. if she thinks it’s too long, that means she really likes you. if she thinks that’s too short, she’s not ready for a relationship.
now i want to blog about this topic…..
Interesting. I never followed the rules and had them all…
Do what you want to do. If it doesn’t work, it’s not right anyway.